The Babylon 5 Wars List Magazine Issue #3 Aug 20, 1998 Well, here you are, you've made it to the third issue of the magazine. I am still getting a supportve letter eveyr now and then so my efforts will continue, still I'd like to get some help: condensing some four hundred posts on Thunderbolts into just a few dozen takes time... Anyway, this seems to be a pretty full issue with lots of juicy stuff all around, hope you enjoy. - Editor, Jasper McChesney IN THIS ISSUE ------------- TACTICS/BATTLE REPORTS: Centauri vs Narn - 3K fleets Thunderbolt playtest RULES DISCUSSION/SUGGESTION: Plasma Stream essentially useless? Seven fighters per squadron in the show Thunderbolt main gun Thunderbolt superiority & trade-offs Raiders as a tournament fleet Thoughts on Thunderbolts OFFICIAL: Recent Q&A Correction for Octurian twin array hits Modifications to Thunderbolt Continuity answers from WB SCENARIOS/SHIP DESIGN: "Allied Enemies" "Cavalry Charge" "Wolves in the Fold" EA Ferret escort fighter SUBMISSIONS: You may submit posts you think deserve to be in (not necessarily your own), as well as any column or article you write specifically to be submitted. I will not alter the content of anything submitted but I will alter formatting and spelling if a sentance is unclear. I reserve the right to reject any article or column for any reason. ----------------------------------- TACTICS/BATTLE REPORTS ----------------------------------- Posted by Steven W Rushing : "Battle Report: Centauri vs Narn 3 K Tourney rules with 3K fleets to try and test the lower sizes and save time. Also a NCW new only ship selection limit, unofficial. NARN: 1 Bintak, 18 Goriths, 1 DagKar 6 HLaser, 1 Mag , 8 ITorps, 8 Emines, 5 Twins, 5 LPCs, 18 fighters CENTAURI: 1 Centurion, 2 Darkener, 2 Mograth, 1 Maximus. 7 BLaser, 2 Plasma Stream, 10 MatterC, 14 Twins, 5 Guards Setup: Centauri setuo in 4220 F speed 9 for Centurion and 10 for all others. Narn set up Dagkar in 0130B speed -5 (reverse at the start), Bintak in 0125B speed 6 and fighters between them speed 10. Result: After turn 4, the Narn resigned. Bintaki was dead, Dagkar was seriously wounded and had no targets in arc. Most goriths were fine, about 4 dead. One mograth was drifting offmap, other had just one gaurdian, One darkener hurt, rest fine. Analysis: Narn missed Centauri plan to drive by the Bintak and hit the Dagkar on turns 3-4. Once you close in on Dagkar, its toast. narn fighters missed turn 4 firing shot due to poor movement on 3. Nark were wishy washy on turn 2 and allowed range to close too much for matter cannons and not enough for the narn mag gun and such. narns needed to fight the battle at LONG range or very very close. narns needed to bring fighters in at same time and same arc as ion torpedoes to overrrun centauri defenses. Cenauri just kept maneuvering and got in. Gorith decision to abandon attacks on lightly armoured frigates and move to heavily armoured centurion was BAD! Guardian arrays vs mag gun is nice. Turn 1: Power shenanigans saw Bintak turn off twins and 2 pulses. Mograths turn off plasma streams, Maximus turn off 3 twins. Initiative saw centauri win except the dagkar beat one of the medium ships. EW: Bintak 5 OEW at Mog1, Centurion and Darkener 2 OEW at Bintak, all else defensive. Speed: Bintak, Dagkar, and Centurion maintained speeds. All else accelerated to 12. Standoff: 4 Emines fired. No Itorps. Movement... Bintak turned to C, moved 6, turned back to B. Dagkar turned A, moved backwards 5, and turned back to B. Frigates turned E and moved 12 with some slips and Mograths turning back to F Centurion moved mostly forward with a turn to E. Darkeners followed figates. Fighters closed. Fire: No fire from narn. 3 BLasers fired at Bintak, one hit for minor damage. 2 Emines did damage to frigates, one due to drift, no crits or system losses. One Darkner took a rear thruster crit. Turn 2 Power shenanigans saw all systems online including Plasma streams. Initiative saw centauri win. EW: Maximus went 1 OEW at fighters & 4 OEW at Bintaki, Mograths went 1 at fighters & 3 at Bintaki, Centurion and Darkners went 1 at fighters & 6 at Bintaki. Bintak went 8 at MograthA and Dagkar went 3 at each Mograth. All else defensive. Speed changes: Bintaki slowed to 4. (?) Standoff: Dagkar fired 3 IT at each Mograth while Bintak fired 1 IT at Mog1. 4 Emines fired. Movement saw Bintak slip twice towards C but otherwise close. Dagkar moved 5 backwards. Every Centauri ship lined up straight ahead of Bintak getting all weapons in arc heading E.. Frigates and Darkner at ranges 7-10 and Centurion at 14ish. Fighters move to rear of Mograth 1. Fire: Guardians fired to reduce 3 ion torpedoes to an 8, 3 were at 11, 1 was at 16. 5 of 7 still hit (sigh) fighters concentrated on rear of mograth 2 and some at mograth 1. 1 emines hit in the area and one drifted in (sigh). Every weapon excpet Centurion twins fired at Bintak front and Centurion twins fired at goriths. massive fire including twins en masse, 9 of 10 mattler cannons hitting, 4 Lasers hitting, 4 HLaser hitting, Mag gun taking a -5 from 8 to 3 and missing due to Guardians. Front of Bintaki was mostly stripped (all weapons gone), One mograth lost its front, the other its rear. 3 fighters lost. Turn 3 PS: saw Bintak take side lasers offline, forwards were gone. (real time remaining was enough for 2-3 turns max so why arm guns that will never fire. Cheap but effective) Initiative: Centauri won. EW: One mograth went full defensive (only one guardian remained), other and maximum went 6 OEW at fighters and 2-3 at Bintaki, Centurion went mostly OEW at fighters. Narns went Dagkar all defensive and Bintak 8 OEW at centurion and rest defensive. Speed changes saw none. Standoff: 4 emines fired and 1 ITorp at Centurion. Movement: Bintak shortened turn mode and made two turns to F. Dagkar moved to turn to C (heading F) and do a start stop pivot to end facing B again, moving F. De-reared Mograth coul still slip and agie pivot and was heading in the right direction. All frigates moved to LS of Bintaki within range 3 and used agile pivots to line up 8 twin and one plasma stream at range 3. Centurion moved mostly E and fighters purued them. Fire: Emines missed. Goriths fired at rear of Centurion and discovered what heavier armour means , some damage, nothing critical. 16 auto hit twins and the PS hit the LS stripped 2 armor from the structure and smashed everything tho structure held. One rear laser fired at Cneturin and hit for some damage. Bintak took -2 power for critical. Bintaki fired twins offensively at frigate and intercepting guardians did some good. Turn 4 PS: Narn turned off recently fired laser (time, cheap) and one ITorp (just fired, same deal). Init: Centauri won. EW: Narn locked up darkners with OEW, Mograth and Maximus went OEW at DAGKAR!! Centurion locked up bintaki and a little to fighters. Speed changes, none. Standoff: Surprised DagKar had 2 Emines and 6 ITorp. 6 Itorp went at a darkner and 2 emines fired. Movement. Bintak turned to E. Centurion and Darkners lined him up. Ranges were real close. Fighters were out of position. Frigates closed to fire 1 Matter cannon, and 16 twins shots auto at Dagkars front. Dakar turned to D moving A. Fire: one emine hit but most of the ships were not in EMine arc. Massed twin and matter cannon fire killed 4 ITorps and 4 Emines but front held. Bintak dies to Darkener and Centurion fire. Darkner damaged seriously by ITorps. NOTE, one I torp was partiall intercepted by guardian. End of game." ----------------------------------- Thunderbolt playtest Geoffrey Long posts: "Did a VERY short battle last night. We ran out of time, and it was small anyways. It mainly served to test the effectiveness of the Gatling Pulse Cannon's raking vs. ships effect. Players-5 P1(me)-6 Thunderbolts w/RIO P2(narn)-1 Rongoth Destroyer P3(league)-2 Sky Serpents, 6 class fighters P4(narn)-12 Gorith P5(centauri)-Somewhere from 6-8 Rutarian (I don't remember) Map ABC DEF Setup I set up in the bottom center of map E. P2 set up in the corner of D, P3 in mid-A, P4 in the top of B, and P5 in the corner of C. Turn 1 Rongoth(speed 5) turns toward map A. League fighters move directly in front of the Rongoth. Gorith move to center of map B. Rutarians head for the Goriths' flanks, but are too far away to fire. My T-Bolts get the best initiative(those RIOs rock!) and move into position to fire missles at the League and Rongoth. League and Rongoth slug it out, leaving the Rongoth with 3/4 of structure, its Retros, and a Hvy. Pulse hanging on by a thread. 1 Sky Serpant is destroyed, the other takes about 50% damage. Turn 2 Rongoth turns to head off the map on turn 3. Goriths and Rutarians move to mix it up at the edge of map B. League fighters(who are at spd 12) turn to head off the map, and can only jink by 2. Thunderbolts launch 4 missles at the Rongoth, 8 at the League, and move directly in front of the Rongoth. Goriths and Rutarians all miss pathetically and only 1 hit is scored, leaving a slightly damaged Rutarian. Missles roar in on the League fighters. The rule for jinking counting x2 vs. missles are in effect, and this saves 1 fighter from a grisly death. Missles miss the Sky Serpant completely, but 1 fighter takes 1 missle, and 2 others are destroyed. Rongoth can not fire on T-bolts, and it just sits there as 4 missles(due to lucky rolls) slam into the aft, taking out a thruster and a twin array. The T-Bolts have a 19 to-hit, and take shots at the Rongoth. Average rolls for pulses, except t-bolt 4 misses the Rongoth. Pulses rip of the damaged pulse cannon, a retro, and do about 1/3 to 1-2 damage to the forward structure. At this point we all had to leave, so we packed up. Analysis- Gunner- The gunner makes the T-Bolt MUCH more effective. This OB bonus is nice, but that +1 initiative bonus is what really helps. That and he can take a cockpit crit for the pilot.... Jinking vs. missles- Only used this a little. Seemed to work ok. If the League fighters had had a little more thrust to jink, they probably wouldn't have lost as many fighters to the missles. Raking-This rule works very well. If it wasn't for this, my T-bolts would have done almost negligable damage all over the place. Killing someone by paper cuts isn't very effective, and neither is 6-pt non-raking pulses. Worked pretty well. Thrust Increase w/out missles-Didn't have much practice with this either. Looks good though. Hopefully I'll be able to get in a full-scale battle soon, and see how well the Bolts do in a fleet action. Will write in as soon as I do." ----------------------------------- RULES DISCUSSION/SUGGESTION ----------------------------------- Plasma Stream essentially useless? Alex Fulton posted: "The plasma stream sucks as a weapon. Assuming average die rolls on 3d10, it will make 16.5 (16) damage. But, it degrades at a rate of -2/hex, meaning this weapon will do 0 damage at anything farther than 8 hexes. You have to be, at the absolute MAXIMUM 6 hexes away for any effect, and if you don't roll well, you'd better be a point blank for him to feel it. Of course, the armor-reducing effect is nice on primaries, which makes the weapon an enigma in the Centauri navy. It would be much better placed on an EA ship to reduce armor on a target so all the EA pulse weapons can be used effectively. As the Centauri concentrate on raking and plasma weapons and standard weapons (and, their MOST used heavy weapon, ignoring armor COMPLETELY), and have NO pulse weapons at all, it seems kind of odd to have an armor-reducing weapon. Since, after all, armor is most effective against pulse weapons which they don't use. Go figure." Jamie Coleman replied: "In the battle I had (against a Bin'Tak), the first few shots with the plasma stream were useless, but my last couple connected and reduced armor on the structure (I think I removed 5 points of armor total between two streams, most of that on two different structure blocks). This would have been Real Nice aside from 2 things: (A) I didn't have any Sentris to go hog-wild over that opening in the armor and I'd screwed up maneuvering the Maximus and had it way out of position to bring its twins to bear; and (B) battles don't really tend to last long enough for it to have much of an impact on the game (I didn't get those hits until turn 8). Where I see the plasma stream being useful is in a fight against a big, well-armored monstrosity. You send in a few small ships with the plasma stream, followed up by either Sentris or light ships with lots of twins (Maximus is good for this) to go after those spots with the reduced armor. It's interesting to note that the Plasma Stream really doesn't help the Mograth itself out much at all, because it's main punch is from the armor- ignoring Matter Cannons. So it's clearly designed to be used in conjunction with something that's got high volume of fire but low damage weapons." ------------------------------------ Seven fighters per squadron in the show Rob Hayward posts: "Rewatching SD for the nth time last night I noticed that the B5 fighter bays are in groups of 7. Also when they fighters are launched from the Omegas they are also in definite groups of 7. I had previously believed that there were only 6 in a squadron so why does the cgi consistently show 7." ------------------------------------ Thunderbolt main gun Laurent Leclerc suggests: "After some thought, I do not believe that the "raking" pulse cannon on the Thunderbolt is a good idea. The first reason is that pulse weaponry are by definition very affected by armor and should stay that way. The second reason is that the 6 d6 times pulse is not able to kill a Nial. We believe that the Thunderbolt was built to counter the Nial, so it's main gun should be able to kill a Nial with one volley! Third, I remember clearly to have see a Thunderbolt killing a Vorlon fighter singlehandly with one volley in the episode "Into the Fire". So the Gatling pulse should be able to cause trouble to Vorlon fighter. So, I propose to give to the Thunderbolt the equivalent of a Light Pulse Cannon (8 d5 times) but with a one turn recharge. That gun would kill a Nial 40% of the time and have an average penetration (armor 5) of 9, that's a little more than the 7.5 of the Nial. The maximum penetration of the weapons, same armor, would be 15, the approximate value of a Vorlon fighter (remember, I have not playtested it). For the people that would say that this is too powerful, the damage that gun would cause to primairy system will be very limited, in particular against Centauri and Abbai ship! AoG and many people on this list will say that the Thunderbolt fire 6 time while other point out that it is suppose to be a 4 barelled cannons. The 5 pulse cannons would be a reallistic compromise." VALAMIR responds: "A) Where do you get T-bolt are built to counter Nials. That makes little sense since they didn't get built until 10 years *after* the last engagements with Nials occured. Seems a little late to be designing ships specifically to counter a ship you haven't fought in a decade. I get the impression that the T-bolt is just the latest evolution of EF fighter design, being phased into use because it is to be the standard front line fighter, not because it is a special built Nial killer. B) "would *like* to kill a Nial with one volley is very different from "is *able* to kill a Nial with one volley. Who says EF even has a fighter scale weapon with that level of power to it. You want to put a Ship weapon (granted a small one but a ship weapon none the less) on a FIGHTER!!????. In the words of a famous handy man 'I don't think so Tim'. 'Yea, that T-bolt came stock with a 6 barrel gatling laser, but it needed more power...so I rewired it...dropped a standard-8 hyper plasma pulse cannon with duel carbs and mag wheels in there...watch that puppy cook now..'" posted: "I've been wrestling with the Gatling damage resolution. I haven't been happy with the damage potential for either the original method or the new raking method. My opinions: I don't feel that multiple fighters should be targets of a single Gatling burst. The bursts are too close together to traverse any real distance to hit another fighter. Along the same lines, I think that the shots will have a much more fucused dispersion pattern on ships than most raking weapons. I don't think that it should have a much larger damage potential than a Nial or 'Old One' fighter. With the current raking version, it is conceivable that a single Thunderbolt could do 30 pts to the front structure on a Primus (not likely, but possible). A Nial can't do more than 12pts. This is way too much of a disparity for my taste. My suggestion: 4pts, raking, d6 shots - also, assume that all shots hit one location until that location is destroyed, then any remaining shots can spread out to other systems randomly. This functions similar to a raking weapon called shot, although the original location is rolled randomly and obviously there is no penalty to hit. Comparison: numbers in parenthesis are armor value at which T-bolt does equal to or more damage. T-bolt Avg damage is 14pts - 1*armor Max damage is 24pts - 1*armor Min damage is 4pts - 1*armor Starfury Avg damage is 15pts - 2*armor (1 armor) Max damage is 20pts - 2*armor (always) Min damage is 10pts - 2*armor (never) Nial Avg damage is 22.5pts - 3*armor (5 armor) Max damage is 30pts - 3*armor (3 armor) Min damage is 15pts - 3*armor (never) Obviously, if a 1 is rolled on the number of pulses it is a virtually worthless shot. That's also the case for any pulse weapon to varying degrees. Heck there is a 10% chance per twin array shot of doing 5pts of damage." While Ryan Lawson suggested: "How about 8 D3 times? Without raking. Against an armor of 4 it would average 8 damage and max out at 12 damage. A better average than the Starfury but the same max damage. It also has the capability of hurting a Whitestar...just a bit. Or.... Has anyone thought about something like 4 D5 times WITH raking against fighters and ships? Against an armor of 4 it gives an average of 8 and a max of 16. In general with different hit locations a Starfury will be a better anti-ship fighter and a Thud will be better against fighters....which is kind of what I would expect. What do you guys think about these? I kind of like the 4 D5 cause it covers the higher rate of fire and address the other damage arguments well. It also sticks to the easily remembered and standard D5 rule." David Reeves sugested: Here are some other pulse gun options. i guess 10 and 12-point pulses bothered me for a fighter-class ship when these caliber of damage pulses are only seen on ships or first ones fighters. the following are 8-point damage pulse stats. assumptions: (cap ship, avg armor 4 nial avg damage: 10.5 nial max damage: 18) 8 d4 avg damage: 10 (2.5 pulses avg) max damage: 16 [roughly equivalent to a nial with a slight disadvantage to avg and max damage.] 8 d5 avg damage: 12 max damage: 20 [slightly better in both categories to the nial.] with all the discussion on the list, i do not clearly remember if the official material says that the TBolt is slightly superior, the same or slightly inferior to the nial. so play with the above numbers that best fit." And for a grand finally, Wraith posted: "Oka, I'm just going to spit out some numbers here on various forms of the pulse gun that have been suggested: Base against capital ship, average armor 4. Average for d6 is 3(4) Average for d3 is 2 6 d6 6 d6 10 d3 10 d3 12 d3 12 d3 (rake) (rake) (rake) Average Damage 6(8) 14(20) 12 16 16 20 Max Damage 12 32 18 26 24 32 Aurora Average Damage 7 Aurora Max Damage 12 Nial Average Damage 10.5 Nial Max Damage 18 Frazi Average Damage 9 Frazi Max Damage 14 Rutarian Average Damage 6.5 (Ion bolt) Rutarian Max Damage 14 (Ion bolt) 6 d6 w/out the rake is very comparable to the Aurora as it is now, however it is impossible to mimic some of the abilities that the Thunderbolt shows, especially it ability to do damage to the White Star Fleet. 6 d6 w/ the rake is pretty powerful. If will probably lead to the tactic of sending in Thunderbolt to a side with some Auroras. Let the Aurora's fire first and take out most of the smaller systems, and then fire with the Thunderbolts as with less other systems, the chances of raking of the structure increase. Now on average the chances of all 5 or 6 pulses hitting the same system or structure are rare, careful stratejy can increase those odds to more often than most people would like. 10 d3 w/ out rake is comparable to the nail, although it is slightly superior, and is definatly superior to the Aurora. 10 d3 w/ rake is less powerful than 6 d6 w/ rake, but has a better average, and will probably lead to the same tactics as the 6 d6 w/ rake. 12 d3 w/ out rake is about equivalent to the 10 d3 w/ rake and is very powerful. 12 d3 w/ rake is almost exactly similar to 6 6d w/rake. Other option: 4 unidirectional pulse cannons 1d6+2 that fire quickly like a gatteling gun. Average Damage: 6 Max Damage: 16 Aurora has a better average, but this would have a better max and would be an excelent anti-fighter weapon with out the no overkill bonus of the pulse weapon. Or 1d6+3 Average Damage: 10 Max Dmage: 20 More powerful than a Nial, which probably isn't a good idea. PULSE CANNON NO OVERKILL BONUS Okay with the Thunderbolt as it is now, the Gatteling Pulse Cannon never has overkill shots against other fighters (In flight rules)because it can direct its pulses at specific ships.) With all 6 pulses is could concievably kill 12 damage to a nial 1 Starfurry w/8 damage to another 2 Sentris 2 Rutarians 2 Goraths 2 Frazis 3 Raziks 3 Raiders (these are all rear kills, those most often I see in the game coming from fighters to fighters.) if the 6 d6 was raking (which so far it isn't) we'd see 2 Nials 2 Starfurry 2 Frazis 3 Sentris 3 Rutarians 3 Raziks 3 Goraths 3 Raiders if it was 10 d3 1 Nial 1 Starfurry and 1 w/ 8 damage 1 Frazi and 1 w/ 8 damage 1 Sentri and 1 w/ 8 damage 1 Gorath and 1 w/ 8 damage 1 Rutarian and 1 w/9 damage 3 Raziks 3 Raiders 10 d3 w/ rake would be the same except for 1 Nial and 1 w/6 damage 12 d3 would be 1 Nial and 1 w/ 8 damage 1 Starfurry and 1 w/ 10 damage 1 Frazi and 1 w/ 10 damage 3 Sentris 3 Goraths 3 Rutarians 3 Raziks 3 Raiders 12 d 3 w/ rake would be the same Raking against fighters seems like a no no, but it seems odd to say the weapon rakes against capital ships and not against fighters Okay that's the end. Its all a bunch of numbers that I thought I throw out, what do people think. When I look at all that I think I might fall into the 10 d3 catigory. I like the 6 d6 without rake but feel it would be inconsistent with the show. I also begin to feel that the Thunderbolts Gatteling pulse cannon shouldn't be allowed to target multiple fighters." ------------------------------------ Thunderbolt superiority & trade-offs Aaron Mays offered: "The T-bolt's gun looks fine to me. I personally rationalise the shorter bursts sometimes seen on the show the same way I rationalise firing two and three round bursts with a 850 rpm LMG: He'll be just as dead with two bullets in him as with 50, and I only need two to hit, so I'll just save the ammo. As far as thrust is concerned (checks CD, grumbles a bit). "A much faster and more manueverable ship than the Mk I and Mk II Starfuries it was designed to replace." Doesn't say anything about armor, and says 4 40mm pulse cannons rather than anything about a gatling pulse cannon, so who knows. But I personally think that 12-13 free thrust would be apropriate. As for armor, I could see F/P/S 3, Aft 2. It is a ground attack ship, after all. Missiles are an interesting question, which I have not gotten a hard and fast handle on yet. We'll see." Alex Fulton adds: "Please remember that the official CD, which is a canon source, DOES say that the Thud is faster and more maneuverable than the 'fury. And while their 'data' sections leave much to be desired, their text descriptions are accurate - AoG even had to use them for the League races. Also, the fact is, in the show the TBolt is used as a superiority fighter. Now, maneuverability cannot really be changed in the current system (unless you allow 7 jinking for a heavy fighter), but it could be tied with thrust. Speed definately would be. So, the TBolt needs at least 13 thrust to be better than the 'fury (actually, I like that number- I don't think it is used anywhere else, kinda makes the Thud unique). Also, in the quote Mr. Barnich here quoted, WB seems to indicate that the Thud has more armor. Oh, well. Don't like it, but it is what T-W-K say. Perhaps giving it side armor?? Similar to the Sentri, then. Really can't make a judgement on missiles. They are used in the show, but against slow and unmaneuverable targets. ANYWAY, an argument can be made either way for them. THE POINT IS that armor and thrust both have to be improved over the 'fury. This is according to official sources. Other refinements (such as missiles and gun's damage) can be argued as much as you want as to what a certain scene really means in relation to another and how damage seems to be against a certain ship, etc. But, when T-W-K spell something out directly... Anyway, my .02" ------------------------------------ Raiders as a tournament fleet Alex Fulton posts: "Yeah, it seems that scrapyards are not the best idea for Raiders. After a major battle in a widespread war, before either side really has time to come in and clean up the mess, now THAT would be a good place to find equipment. I tend to think, though, that the best place for Raider supplies would be League worlds. That being said, how about this for a tourny restriction on Raiders: 1) All fighters can be Delta-V fighters (no restrictions here). 2) Up to 1 flight in every 6 can be a League races fighter. Allowed fighters are: -Name a number of League-1 fighters. -only the weakest from certain race, and -of course, not all races are represented -in the choice of fighters. Perhaps -the Razik might me allowed, maybe Gorith 3) These can only be carried on Raider Carriers What says you all??" To which Leonard Farnsworth replies: "I like the idea of Raiders using Razik and Gorith fighters, haven't seen any of the League ships yet so I can't comment, but based on early season 5 some Drazi ships/weapons would be in order... Also we should remember that not all Raiders are human. I'm sure the League, Narn and Centauri have their share of pirates (somehow the Minbari just seem above that sort of thing) not to mention the various minor powers... but then this is why they're planning a Raider supplement (tap, tap, tap... waiting...)" ------------------------------------ Thoughts on Thunderbolts (ad infinitum -ed.) Daniel Miller posted: "First of all, I want the explicit option to put this thing into battle sans missiles (or with a partial load) at a lower price. We've seen Thuds flying without missiles plenty of times. Second (and this will go to the Q&A list as well), can the Thud choose to fire fewer than 2 of its missiles? Third: I think the Thud sans missiles should be at least as good a fighter as the Aurora. Give it penalties when it's carrying the missiles to balance them out. (I.E., someone already suggested the jinking limit be reduced by one for each missile. I suggest the thrust start at 12 and also be reduced by 1 for each missile. This makes sense physics-wise.)" Alex Fulton replies: "Seems good. Plus, instead of a set +10 base to-hit, make a chart like 10/6/1. This way, if fighting a fighter-heavy force, the TBolts would be more likely to leave their missiles home to get more of them. Plus, it makes players THINK before making up their Thud forces (IE., how many missile do I want and how to balance them with more Thuds?) Concur - but, the missiles are not THAT big. I would say 1/2 for each missile, so, with a full load, its thrust would be 10 (what we see now) but, when unloaded, it is 12. I would also suggest that the fighter cannot jink the turn it fires missiles. After all, if the fighter is jerking about so much that its own fire control computer is penalized for it, how can you safely fire a missile??" ------------------------------------ OFFICIAL ----------------------------------- Recent Q&A: > What are the rules on reloading the thunderbolt's missiles? > a) How long does it take to reload? It's in the core rules. No, really! Check it out - page 37, reloading of weapons. > b) Is there a limited supply on the ship the t-bolt is launched from? Those rules haven't yet been defined. For now, assume no. > c) Can a t-bolt only reload from its launch ship or can it go to another > friendly? Only the ship that launched it, or another ship that also launched Thunderbolts. > Can the Thunderbolt fire fewer than 2 missiles? Yes. > Does the Thud get its offensive bonus on missile shots? Yes. > Must it split its offensive bonus between its gun, the first missile, > and the second missile, or does it get +5 for each? No. Reference the FAQ page, Fighters & Shuttles, first question. It gets its full offensive bonus for all weapons it carries. > Is there a name for that unlabeled star system one jump from Centauri > Prime and Bentat? Is it just a typo or isn't the name known? I do not know. Only the person who designed the map knows, and I cannot find him to get an answer. If he doesn't say, I'll make one up and put it on the map in League-1. > If I fire missiles at a flight of fighters (either from another flight of > fighters or a ship), how is damage resolved? > > Does each missile hit a fighter randomly doing full damage (minus armor of > course), or is damage divided as stated in the core rules? The first one. > After looking over the Thunderbolt fighter I have a couple questions > concerning the missiles under flight level combat. > > How are the missiles intercepted? An example to clarify my question. A > flight of Thunderbolts launches 12 missiles, 2 per fighter, at an Omega, > which has DEW of 4. When resolving the hits the base to hit is 10 + OEW > (5) - DEW (4) = 11. This I understand fine the problem I have comes > when defensive fire is included. Suppose in the above example the Omega > can fire 6 standard particle beams and 2 interceptors in defensive > mode. The defensive totals would total to -20, -2/spb * 6spb + (-4/int) > * 2 int = -20. Would this result be added the chance to hit as -20, > making the chance to hit a -9, 11 - 20 = -9? Or should the defensive > weapons be fired at specific missiles, with each missile making a > specific to hit roll. Each missile is fired separately. Don't use the group fire rules for the missiles. Thus, each would also be intercepted separately. > With the combat segment broken down into three phases (ships fire, > fighters fire on fighters, and fighters fire on ships). Will fighter > launched missiles be lost if the fighter is destroyed during the turn of > launching? Taking the above example with the Omega vs. Thunderbolts. > Twelve missiles are launched before the movement segement. The Omega > and Thunderbolts move. The Omega fires an interceptor at the flight of > Thunderbolts, killing on fighter. Will the Omega have to contend with > the full twelve missiles or since one fighter was destroyed will there > only be ten incoming missils? According to the official consolidated sequence of play (which you have not seen yet but soon will), damage from proximity weapons (energy mines, ion torpedoes, packet torpedoes, missiles) is the first damage scored in the Resolve Weapons Fire step--even before ships firing at fighters. This means the missile would roll to hit (and its effects would be resolved) before there was any chance to destroy the fighter that launched it. Apparently it has always worked this way, according to my co-designer, I just never realized it before now (sigh). >How is interception handled when using the flight rules for fighters? Up to 6 (or the number of fighters in the flight) weapons can try to intercept without penalty, since they are effectively shooting at different incoming shots. Sum the total intercept rating, divide by 6 (or whatever), round fractions of 0.5 or more up, and apply the result to the flight's group to-hit roll. >Finally, if I fire a light pulse cannon at a flight of fighters >(using the flight level rules), can I pick which fighters >in the flight are hit (as I would be able to if using non-flight >rules) or must I roll randomly to see which fighter is hit by each >pulse? You can pick, and you can do this with ANY pulse weapon. > If I am using the flight level combat rules, and there are two flights > of different fighters in one hex, can I hit fighters in both flights > with one pulse gun? The rule says "a stack of fighters or shuttles (a group of them in the same hex)." It does not define this group in any way, so basically all fighters in the same hex are part of the same stack. The flight arrangements do not limit your options here. > What kind of cockpit crits can effect missiles? If the pilot is killed, > what happens to any missiles fired that turn? Or, if missile damage > is resolved after the missiles hit, there is obviously no way to cause > the fighter to lose control of them, so why is this rule mentioned. > I'd have to say the pilot doesn't guide the missile himself, his fighter does. So if any crit would affect it, it would be a fire control hit, and that would work as listed in the rules. Note that the only way this would matter is if the fighter took this damage during the movement step, as the missiles would hit immediately at the start of the fire step. > Assume a ship has 12 fighters, a flight of TBolts and a flight of > 'furies. Is this one squadron for purpose of EW allocation? Assume this > is the only fighters in the battle. Are they a single squadron or should > they be treated differently? You can define a squadron any way you like. Six Furies and six T-bolts would not be unacceptable. > How do shields effect matter cannons? This is perhaps a question that > could be answered off-list due to the fact that all shielded ships are > still in playtest. It seems kind of odd that they could effect the damage, > though, since all the damage from a matter cannon is from the weapon > exploding inside the ship. We've decided to remove the rule that shields don't block proximity weapons (only playtesters would know about this anyway). This would remove any question of whether the matter cannon was affected. > I didn't notive until it was mentioned on the list tonight, but in NCW the > Primus' Battle Laser arcs have been doubled to 120 degrees! Is this correct, > or a typo? It's correct. ----------------------------------- Correction for Octurian twin array hits Someone asked: Are the side twin arrays on the Octurion invulnerable? No, this is an error on the sheet. The side hits should read: 8: Plasma Stream 9-10: Twin Array 11-18: Port/Stb Struct ----------------------------------- Modifications to Thunderbolt > Bruce, your restrictions on the T-Bolt do not seem to jive with what we > have seen in the show. The Alexander and the Churchill seemed to have a > full load of T-bolts, as did the Shadow Megas, as well as the Omega's > around Proxima III in "No Surrender, No Retreat" and B5's cobra bays > seemed capable enough of holding them easily... Am I seeing things? Those restrictions came straight from the mouths of They-Who-Know. It is non-negotiable. THEY have decreed it, so shall it be! > I hate to pick nits, but in the episode we first learn of the TBolt, > Sheridan, while sitting in a TBolt, tells Bester that he is sitting on, > "four uni-directional pulse cannons." You will recall that this is the > episode where they recover the telepaths including Bester's lover. Yeah, we know about that, but every time the damn thing shoots, you see six bolts coming out of a single gun in the front. I think this is a case of whoever wrote the dialogue not bothering to check with the people who were doing the special effects (or vice versa). It's also possible that the one we saw Sheridan in was some kind of training model with older guns, or maybe even an entirely different variant we haven't designed yet. (Maybe a fraction of T-bolts have 4 uni-pulse cannons instead of the gatling gun.) > The Thunderbolt that we have has missles. This is great and makes the > ship very powerful however, the only time that I can find in the show > that we see the Thunderbolt with its missile compliment is when it is > bombing Mars. All other times it is simply used as a space superiority > fighter in the same roll as the Aurora. It has hardpoints built in for missiles. They-Who-Know told us this directly. It's possible that the ones in the other episodes either didn't have missiles on them or had already used them (or the CGI people didn't bother putting them in). Again, we here at AOG are engaged in a constant struggle to figure out how to deal with inconsistencies in the show, and match them to what we know from other sources, including WB. In some cases we get to decide. In other cases we are told what to do. Take the Starfuries launching missiles in Thirdspace, for example. Not once in any other episode do we see this technology used. Why? Because CGI didn't put in missiles until they made the TV-movie! This makes our job a lot more difficult, but we do what we can. :) > If missiles soon become all the rage for fighters in B5W I might have > to pull an Imre A. Szabo myself. The thought of every fighter flying > around with a wing load of missiles makes me really sick. Then don't use missiles. The rules for adding missiles to fighters (other than the Thunderbolt, with which our hands are pretty much tied) will be OPTIONAL. That means they won't be allowed in tournaments, so you don't have to worry about having to boycott a tournament to avoid squadrons of missile-armed Frazis. > Does jinking affect missile accuracy? Of course, just like any other weapon a fighter might shoot. Now, on to some T-bolt changes I've been considering due to all the questions, comments and posts about it, including several nice letters I received via email. Please playtest these changes. I'm not changing the control sheet yet, so you will have to make them all by hand, and some may not make it into the final version. I also need reports on the price of the updated fighter. Gunner: The Thunderbolt can purchase a gunner. This increases the offensive rating to 6. In addition, since the pilot is now free to concentrate on maneuvering, the fighter's initiative gets a +1 bonus. The gunner costs ??? points (I'm thinking 12). When the gunner is added, change the forward critical hit box on the third row from Gatling to Cockpit. The first cockpit hit then hits the gunner, removing these bonuses for the remainder of the scenario. Gatling vs. Ships: When fired at ships, consider the individual pulses of each gun to be part of a single raking volley. Thus, if four pulses hit a ship with 6 structure armor, and all four hit structure, only the first would be absorbed by armor; the rest would penetrate and score actual damage. This should make the Thunderbolt a bit better against ships after its missiles are gone. Missiles & Thrust: The presence of missiles on the fighter restrict its maneuvering and reduce its thrust. The listed rating of 10 is in effect when all four missiles are present. As each is launched or destroyed, the thrust rating rises by 1 immediately (to the obvious maximum of 14), so if a fighter with 4 missiles launches 2 before movement, it will have 12 thrust available for that turn's maneuvers. Missiles can be voluntarily dropped at any time to gain thrust, but if dropped, they are lost--they cannot be recovered. (Note: This change, if implemented, would give you a tactical reason to maybe NOT want to have a full missile load, and also nicely clears up that little inconsistency bit regarding the T-bolt being "more maneuverable" than the Starfury, according to official sources. It IS more maneuverable...when not fully loaded.) Jinking vs. Missiles: I'm also VERY interested in hearing some playtest reports regarding jinking counting double against missiles. The fear is that any fighter you launch a missile at will simply jink like crazy (which it can do due to the sequence of play), but this may not be a bad thing, as it affects his maneuvering dramatically. It might also explain why all those missiles missed against the Raiders in Thirdspace." ----------------------------------- Continuity answers from WB "Someone previously asked if we were absolutely locked into what they told us, and if we had any kind of options or alternatives, or if we could present arguments to the contrary. Well, basically, we can't. All we can do is ask a question, and when they tell us their answer, we're stuck with it. I will say, however, that if the answer is something as yet undefined (e.g., what weapons the League races use), they let us determine it, then put it in their logbooks to ensure later continuity. This is the reason they have one single continuity focal point now. Before, you could ask different people and get different answers. Now, there is only one place to go to get those answers. It seems to be working very well." ----------------------------------- SCENARIOS/SHIP DESIGNS ----------------------------------- "Allied Enemies" by Wraith "Allied Enemies: A Scenario for B5 Wars For 2 to 4 players BACKGROUND Earth has signed a non-aggression treaty with the Centauri Republic. Clark has declared martial law. Earthforce has split into two factions, the loyalists and the rebels, and the loyalists have won, for now. Many of the rebels have fled to fight another day, but in the mean time they need supplies, repairs and shelter. One brave rebel captain near the Centauri boarder was in desperate need of all three, and decided to take a chance on the Centauri civilian base at Beta 3, and play the new allies game. Unknown to this captain, the loyalist were aware of his movement and while they were not in a position to intercept him, they did ask for help from their new Centauri allies. PLAYER #1 (Earth): 1 Nova Dreadnought, 12 Aurora Heavy Fighters PLAYER#2 (Earth): 2 Olympus Corvettes, 12 Aurora Heavy Fighters (from the Nova) PLAYER#3 (Centauri): 1 Centurion Attack Cruiser, 1 Altarian Destroyer, 1 Kutai Gunship, 18 Sentri Fighters (6 from the Altarian, 12 from Marcanos) PLAYER#4 (Centauri): 1 Centurion Attack Cruiser, 1 Altarian Destroyer, 1 Kutai Gunship, 18 Sentri Fighters (6 from the Altarian, 12 from Marcanos) Centauri EXTRA: Marcanos Civilian Base (Keep a sheet handy incase it becomes important, EA will probably attempt to move away from it once they come under attack) SETUP Map: ABC DEF In hex 0505 there is located a Marcanos Civilian Base Scattered across sections A, B, D & E are 16 Civilian Supply Freighters or Civilian Luxury Liners (use what ever counters are handy or scratch paper.) Roll a d6 for heading and a d6-2 for speed (1 minimum). They will follow the same heading for the whole scenario, each round they will increase speed to a maximum of 4. Once they leave the board they disappear. In hex 2828 there is a Jump Gate (which the Centauri are broadcasting as under repair, so the EA will have to use its own jump engines to jump into the system.) EA decides which hex they are going to jump into, writes this down and the speed of all ships. No fighters may be deployed at this time. Centauri Player places ships on the board however he so chooses. Fighters from the Marcanos Civilian Base cannot be deployed at this time. VICTORY CONDITIONS: Earth: Escape. Whatever it takes to escape. Unfortunately the Nova's Jump engines are down, and the Jump Gate is under Centauri lock out. Either find a way to break through that Centauri lock out, run as fast as you can, or duke it out. If the Earth ships choose to fire on the Civilian Base and end up hitting structure it is considered that civilians have died and the best Earth can then receive is a marginal victory. Centauri: Stop the Earth rebels. Their allies in Earth Dome said nothing about capturing the rebels alive. Don't let them escape, but don't risk your neck. If any ship is lost the best that the Centauri player can hope for is a marginal victory. SPECIAL RULES: Fighter Flight Rules are in use Ramming is not allowed Fighters on the Nova and the Marcanos Civilian Base cannot launch until the end of turn 2 Breaking Centauri Jump Gate Lock: One or more of the Earth ships may attempt to break the Centauri lock on the Jump Gate. To do this take each side rolls 2d6 and adds to this a modifier based on the units C&C. The ships add the number of boxes in their C&C, while the base adds 5*(the number of boxes in its C&C.) The same EA vessel must win twice in a row to break control for the following round, and must continue to win each additional round he wishes to keep it open. Make this roll in the adjust ship systems phase. Obviously if the C&C of a ship or base is hit, this will reduce the modifier. If a ship or base takes a C&C critical above 9, then they get no modifier next turn. In addition to this, any ship that attempts to break the lock out, must take a -2 initiative penalty. Civilian Traffic: There is a good deal of Civilian Traffic in the space ways here. To reflect this there are a number of Civilian ships on the board that will move in their appropriate time. These Civilians are scared, and aren't driving all that carefully. To represent this, no ships accept fighters can enter a hex occupied by a Civilian ship. There is too great a possibility of accidental ramming, or the Civilian getting in the way of a shot, or what have you. OPTIONS: Jumping in from Hyperspace: Rather than having the exactness of jumping to a specific hex, this system may be used. Have the player choose the hex they want to jump into. Then roll a d6 for direction and either a d6 or d10 for how far off the jump is. On a d6 1-5 equal the number of hexes off the ship is while a 6 hits it on the money. A d10 is the same except a 10 hits it on the money. Remove the Centurions and Altarians and put in two Primuses with full fighter compliments. Remove a Centurion and Altarian and sneak a Dargan into the Civilian ships. Give the Earthers a flight of Thunderbolts" ----------------------------------- "Cavalry Charge" by Leonard Farnsworth "Background: 2247. The Earth Alliance is retreating before the Minbari advance. The New Paris outpost has fallen. A handful of brave troops have remained at the outpost trying to trick the main attack force into concentrating on the abandoned base while the bulk to the personnel are escaping on military transports to the secondary jump gate. The Minbari have fallen for the ruse, sending only a token force to destroy the escaping transports. Even that small force might be enough, but help is on the way. EA forces: 3 civilian supply freighters (upgrade armor on the fore and aft locations by 1), 6 Starfuries Minbari forces: 9 Nials EA reinforcements: 1 Hyperion, 6 Starfuries Neutral: jump gate Set up: Standard maps. The EA forces set up in one corner of the map. Starfuries must be within 2 hexes of the freighters. All ships are a speed 4. The Minbari set up along the same map edge as the EA, in the opposite corner, at speed 6. The jump gate is set in the opposite corner from the EA ships. EA reinforcements are not on the board, but rather are enroute in Hyperspace. Before turn 1 the EA player must decide if the reinforcements will arrive through the jump gate or via a jump point. If they arrive via a jump point then that point must be chosen before play starts. The EA reinforcements arrive 1d3 turns after the first (i.e. turns 2, 3 or 4, this should be determined secretly before play starts). Victory Conditions: The Minbari have a simple goal... kill or disable all the freighters. If 3 thrusters or all cargo holds are destroyed the freighter is considered disabled. If the Minbari can also kill or disable the Hyperion they will win a major victory. Earth Force wins if they can escape into hyperspace with at least 1 freighter and the Hyperion. If they can escape with all freighters they win a major victory. Special Rules: Do not use flight level rules for this fight. Options: Give the 'Furies gunsights. Note: This scenario is designed wit the published jammer rules, but feel free to try your favorite playtest rules instead." ----------------------------------- "Wolves in the Fold" by Jon Souza "BACKGROUND:During the Narn/Centauri war, a plan designed by G`Dar`Jareth G`Par called "Grey Hunters" was put into effect. In essence, small "wolfpacks" of jump-capable destroyers carefully infiltrated Centauri lines, using hidden supply caches concealed all over Centauri space to resupply themselves. Once inside the depths of Centauri space, the wolfpacks would hunt any civilian or military cargo traffic within Centauri space, sometimes even challenging small starbases with hit and run tactics. Near the end of the war, however, most of the "wolfpacks" were recalled to bolster Narn fleet losses. The few that still operated, however, were formidable opponents. So much so that the Centauri set a trap for the "Divine Vengence" wolfpack, using a "fast" military convoy and one hidden ship. Player One: Narn Ships: Ka'Toc Battle Destroyer, Sho'Kar Scout, Var`Nic Long Range Destroyer x4. The Var`Nics are all carrying Frazi fighters (six flights), and the Ka`Toc and Sho`Kar have Gorith fighters. The Ka`Toc has a gunsight and improved fire control on it's mag-gun, and a Expert Helmsman. The Var`Nics have gunsights on their Medium Lasers. The Sho'Kar has +2 improved sensors. Player Two: Centauri. Sulust Escort Destroyer x2, Altarin Destroyer x2, Darkner Fast Attack Frigate, Lias Supply Ship x11, Dargan Strike Cruiser (hidden as a Lias). The Dargarn has improved fire control on the battle lasers and matter cannons, and mounts gunsights on the battle lasers. The Dartigan carries 12 Rutarian fighters, all other ships carry Sentri fighters. SET-UP RULES: The map is to be long and wide. Attach the maps so that the maps are two wide and six long. The Centauri are to place their ships along the bottom of the map in any formation they wish. The Dargan is using it's CSS to appear as a Lias, and will move like one until discovered or the player decides to let the ship act normally. The Narn fleet can enter from any side of the board, EXCEPT behind the Centauri. Their placement is all at once, in any formation. Victory Conditions: Narn: Destroy 50% of the Lias. Once the Dartigan is discovered, it counts as TWO Lias for this purpose. The Ka`Tok and Sho`Kar must be able to disengage on it's own (Jump Drive and engines intact). Centauri: Destroy 50% of the raiders. The Sho`Kar counts as two ships for this purpose. VARIATIONS: New Blood: A second wolfpack joins in on the attack. Add a Ka'Toc Battle Destroyer and four Var`Nic Long Range Destroyers. These ships are modified like the previous versions(i.e. gunsights, improved targeting and Expert Helmman). The Narn MUST destroy the convoy, and 50% of the escorts to win. Suprise and Shock: A second Dargan, with a full fighter compliment, is hidden as well in the fleet. The raiders must all be destroyed to win. Comments: Players like convoy raids because it lets them blow things up without too much risk. However, the Lias are dangerous to fighers and ships if they get TOO close and the Lias remain close together. However, the Narn have a firepower advantage until the Dargan reveals itself. Revelation of the Dargan becomes a tricky problem. Too soon, and the Narn may be able to pick it off with long-ranged Mag Gun and laser fire. Too late, and the fighters may be savaged as they launch. However, it's heavy weapons will change the nature of the battle, if launched." ----------------------------------- Earth Alliance "Ferret" escort fighter by Don Shaffer "EA-25 Ferret - Escort Fighter ------------------------------ History An experimental design, the Ferret was originally created as a means to bring along additional ECM support with standard Starfury squadrons. Although it did contain a massive amount of gear, the resulting sacrifices in armor and speed was not deemed worth it. Coupled with the result that the Ferret required escort from the very fighters it was supposed to support, the production of Ferrets was stopped with but a few Ferrets actually produced. The majority of still operational Ferrets are usually relegated to back water posts or reserve units. Removing the rear turret and cockpit of the Badger, the Ferret mounts a large ECM suite in the vacant space. Furthermore, additional ECM pods were 'hardwired' onto the original Badgers missile hardpoints, and tied into the main ECM suite. The increased weight of this equipment grossly affected the handling capabilities of the Ferret prototype and although armour plating was removed and the frame lightened, the Ferret was still relatively sluggish and ungainly. To further increase matters, the massive power drain on the Ferrets power plant degraded the main guns fire control computer, decreasing accuracy. In flight tests, although the Ferret was functional and did provide mobile ECM in abundance, the slow, thin skinned craft was relatively easy to destroy, even with the DEW gear. EA-25 Ferret class Escort Fighter > Specs Combat Stats Weapon Data > -------------------- ------------------- ------------------------- > Class: Heavy Fighter Fwd/Aft: 8 Uni Pulse Cannon > Crew 1 Port/Stb: 7 Guns: 2 > Points:? Free Thrust: 8 Fire Rate: 1 Turn > Offensive Bonus: +5 Range Penalty: -2 per hex > Init Bonus: -2 Fire Control: N/A > Damage: 1d6+3 (per gun) > -------------------- Firing Arc: 60 degree arc > Armor ------------------------- 3 ECM Gear 2 2 Range: 5 1 Notes: See below > ---------------------------------------- > > |--- Forward Thrusters > |--- ECM > |--- Engine |--Uni-Pulse Cannon > | |--Lateral Thruster > | |--Aft Thruster |--Cockpit > | | |--Fire Control > | | |--ECM --Power Plant > | | | | > | | | | > OOO OOO OOO OOO OOO > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Notes ------ ECM: The ECM gear on the Ferret simulates certain ELINT capabilities. The Ferret can perform all Defensive ELINT abilities as if has 4 DEW points with the exception that all 'targeted' units MUST be within 5 hexes of the Ferret. Critical hits to the ECM system remove 1d6 points of 'DEW'. If this brings the total to 0 or below, ECM is considered destroyed. In any turn that the Ferret uses its ECM abilities, Fire control is reduced to +3. Flight Rules: Any flight of Starfuries may substitute a Ferret for one of the Starfuries. For the duration of the fight, the entire flight is limited to 8 thrust or else the Ferret is forced to drop out. (See drop out rules)." ----------------------------------- Yet another issue draws to a close. I still have yet to hear from would-be-contributers - even just a short editorial would be fine (as long as it isn't too inflamatory...) so get typing! Thanks for reading, see you next time.